When somebody says something at your church and it seems to weird, off, abnormal, or a bit concerning then you need to follow up with both the individuals who MADE UP the accusations as well as the individual that they have accused.
Here’s what that looks like in real life:
When Katie Reames walked into Pathway Church’s office and says something concerning, it’s good to follow up with both sides of the story. As one member stated, “she (Katie) made it sound like you were going to walk into church guns ablazing” Obviously that is very very concerning, right?
So concerning, in fact, that one of our town’s own Burleson Police officers spent the morning in the lobby of Pathway Church fulling willing to take any and all appropriate measures should “something” happen.
Now, Pathway church has their own law enforcement officer who is supposed to be (read: should be) in charge of the church’s volunteer safety team which the Reames family is part of.
Pastor Rick Owen has chosen a neighboring city’s police Lt. Shane Wickson to ensure Pathway Church’s safety and implement policies, procedures, and put people in place which are supposed to protect the church. And, Shane Wickson (Cleburne P.D.) passed on this claim to our local police department here in Burleson. (perhaps a few crucially important details were {cough} “left out” of Wickson’s communication)
Most churches do not really want a member of their own safety squad making hoax threats & accusations. Remember making hoax threats is both a state felony & federal felony and it takes police away from legitimate calls, patrolling, and responding to real emergencies.
If you have a law enforcement officer in place at your church, then that law enforcement officer needs to follow up with every angle of a hoax threat – ALWAYS. Before acting on, or taking any steps further, remember to validate – even if it’s from a fellow law enforcement member.
It’s sad that this needs to be said, but horrifically true that it needs to be heard!
You never want to use the police department, nor take away from other church member’s safety, by having someone from WITHIN the church’s safety team making hoax threats – regardless if it is a “volunteer” or the cop in charge of the volunteers.
What everyone might think is completely inappropriate, it would appear that Pathway seems to embrace as the norm. Remember this didn’t happen once – it’s a pattern.
On one side of the accusation there is an accuser walking into the church office and making a hoax threat about someone else claiming that another individual is going to do something violent to the church with a gun.
On the other hand, I’m in the parking lot on the golf cart welcoming people into church. And, after seeing, and watching the Reames family’s ordeal on September 16th (other safety team member cell recording, my won phone’s recording, the police department’s dispatch call and both officer’s body cam recordings) I have simply chosen to keep my distance, note the shenanigans, and not say a word to them.
So, the person making the hoax threat (Katie Reames) is a part of Pathway Church’s safety team, and the other individual (hi 👋 ) hasn’t spoken a word to the Reames family in months. That’s an important detail which we’ll use later in the validating questions.
I’ll talk more about how dangerous this situation was for church goers later, but for now, lets look at how to deescalate and validate situations like this.
Always make sure that the person is not using your church’s resources to simply create attention seeking claims or vindictively trying to get back at someone. Remember, making hoax threats are both a state and federal felony.
In order to properly deescalate and validate Katie’s claim always be sure to listen carefully while asking validating questions. ….and ALWAYS VALIDATE!
These are questions to ask AS the individual is making the accusations.
Below these are more questions to ask AFTER the incident.
toggle each one question open to read the answer
There’s never “two sides to any story – he said & she said” That myth needs to go away.
There’s INFINITE sides to any lie.
But only one truth.
Hoax threats like these need to be identified, deescalated and validated in the first place. You should never want to see a pattern of these behaviors. The need to be prevented from happening in the first place.
Even if you don’t follow up and diffuse the hoax threat on the initial onset, then it still needs to be followed up on.
All threats should be followed up & taken seriously:
especially HOAX THREATS.
After the service, after Burleson Police has come out & gone, and after nothing happened, then it is even more crucial to follow up with the person who made the accusation.
You might be asking yourself, “So Brad, you didn’t have a gun and you weren’t going to come into church guns ablazing?” Of course not. It’s Katie Reames once again starting crap.
I’m out on the golf cart, getting folks into church, blaring the bluetooth speaker too loud and more than likely singing as I’m driving around welcoming folks to Pathway church! 🤣
When you’ve got a cop in charge of your church’s safety squad, that law enforcement officer’s goal should never be to embrace, cover for, and harbor people who make hoax threats.
Toxic people in the church happens all the time. When (SINCE) situations like this happen, Healthy Boundaries need to be put in place & corrective measures need to be taken. (It’s probably not a smart idea to give ’em a badge and let them be a greeter – just sayin’)
What’s bothersome and concerning here is that you never want to have people like this inciting and instigating hoax threats – for any reason – especially from INSIDE of the church’s safety team.
Instead of Shane Wickson validating anything at all from the Reame’s claim, he simply decides to run with it.
All threats should be followed up & taken seriously:
especially HOAX THREATS.
Look, people love to manipulate and capitalize from other’s fears with claims like “It’s for safety. It’s for the kids. Save the dolphins. The sky is falling.” with these types of scams, scenarios and CONs. Even if it’s someone with a badge wanting to exercise a hero complex, it is never good to enable toxic people in the church with hoax claims.
Yet that is exactly what is seen happening from within Pathway church’s safety squad.
Especially after-the-fact, once it’s validated that Katie Reame’s statement was indeed a hoax threat, there is still a lack of any corrective action from within the church’s safety team.
Even if one is to take the mindset of, “It’s for the women and the children and the orphans and the soldier who are in imminent danger of becoming extinct due to the liberal media taking our guns and instigating fear mongering claims….” (you get the point) ……then afterwards, follow up still needs to happen once the situation has established itself and nothing happened.
It’s a shame that some will take advantage of public trust, good will, and manipulate others trust by embellishing a lie, but this is what happens.
Remember almost every church is going to have a handful of people like this. Here’s some example questions that you can follow up with AFTER THE FACT. These are for BOTH your own church’s “Katie” claims AND for the head of the safety squad as well:
What you’re wanting to listen for here is for the organization or individual to be truthful. Remember, public records requests only take a few clicks. So, you can easily jump online and make a request for all police incidents.
The other element that you want to listen for is if the individual or organization will voluntarily use fear mongering tactics to even go so far as to brag about other incidents where they have utilized public resources for some antics or stunts.
A person answering this deceptively might say things like, “This is the first time it’s happened” or even something similar to “This was a one time event” , “We don’t actively ask emergency responders to come out for these hoax threats”
I’ll let other individuals come forward with their story if they wish. However, what your listening for here from Pathway Church’s safety squad members to answer – either truthfully or deceptively.
Remember, everyone hates being caught in a lie. Using social fear to redirect an answer is a commonplace tactic.
Never enable a liar.
What your listening for here in this answer is to see how many years this behavior has been going on. In most instances, you’ll find that this is NOT something that is “church wide”. More often than not, it’s simply a handful of individuals. Unfortunately, one of the individuals might be a cop, a spouse team on the church’s safety squad, and a few others.
Remember, your looking for a pattern of behavior. Most con artist and fraud jobs usually involve more than one person. From catholic churches who abuse little boys to your local mainstream church making up hoax claims, these instances usually involve more than one person and have an established history.
This might not be a question that the person will answer directly. But ask it anyway and listen very intently. Here’s what you’re wanting to listen for: Remember those other individuals I mentioned above? Will the person making the accusations willingly admit to doing this multiple times?
Many times, you can very easily leverage the pride of the person making the accusations to help them open up to revealing more instances. They are so proud of “putting out a fire that didn’t exist” that they are more than willing to tell you more stories having the same pattern.
Remember though, LISTEN. Listen to what they are claiming.
That image from the above question happened months AFTER Katie has already made several hoax claims. In other words, it should have NEVER happened in the first place.
Often times, you will find a PATTERN of a person’s deceptive behaviors.
This is something you would want to ask to anyone on the organization or church. From the pastor, deacon, bishop, safety team member, executive leadership, anyone on staff, or however the organization is laid out – ask this question and then patiently and calmly wait for their reply.
People who are concerned with safety – not perception – but actual real safety will reply with some level of corrective actions that were taken to the individual(s) creating these hoax threats.
If the organization or individual is more concerned with perception, then this question will be dodgy to answer with
Again, you’re listening for the cop (Shane ninjacop Wickson) to back up the claim which he has now regurgitated to our own Burleson Police which Katie Reames has made.
Wait for the cop to bury himself in his own lies. Or, you can make a public information request and see his emails. 😉
Point being, when you’re dealing with a questionable cop whose incompetence is backed up with actions, words, and time/date stamped electronic communication, then you’ll have a better understanding.
Even after this Sunday has come and gone, the cop in charge of Pathway Church’s safety hasn’t even spoken a word to me in follow up (which is fine), however he sure does seem to have a really big ear for exponentially growing other people’s drama.
Even to the point of putting other officers and the church’s congregation in danger.
The mistakes that could have happened that Sunday morning are horrific. Simply reaching in my bag to get another battery pack for the bluetooth speaker could have resulted in catastrophic situations.
At any point in questioning, a cop is going to do one of two things. Either they respect the integrity of their badge, or they simply want to cover their incompetence.
An incompetent cop is going to say, “Hey. I’ve never said a word to him!” A proper law enforcement officer who cares about the safety of the church and everyone inside would respond with something more appropriate like, “Hey Brad. I’m not sure why, but those recordings of Katie’s lies on Sept. 16th were only the start of it. Now she’s expecting me to take action on fake threats about you. Here’s what happened…….“
The problem when you question a firefighter arsonist or a tin-foil hat wearing cop is that you always want to give them very cautious leeway. Let them dig themselves into their lie, while pulling public records.
Again, always be calm when asking someone about their fake threats. They will probably know that they are busted & in an attempt to dodge any accountability, the individual will probably make up more claims – which is what Katie does.
More than likely, people like this will have a pattern of instigating Burleson Police. And, again you can always pull public record to get a better understanding of Katie Reames (and others) claims.
There’s a suicide every 40 seconds. 22 Veterans die from suicide everyday. And, these idiots think it’s funny to make fake threats about ANYTHING! BTW: just for clarification, I’m ok w/ my brains being on the INside 👍
For those who are local, yep that’s the Rames-mobile. Nice parking job BPD 😉
So, if you’ll listen carefully and get a full picture of people who make fake threats, most often times, you will indeed find a pattern.
Most suburbs have various law enforcement officers living within their community. When someone with a badge brings a “concern” to another officer, there needs to be ZERO concern that the church’s safety officer is lying.
You need to trust that the officer is not lying. Unfortunately, that’s not the case here. Lt. Shane Wickson consistently demonstrates his incompetence by repeatedly feeding his own ego from Katie Reames outlandish, unchecked, and grotesquely false claims.
Since this is an escalating pattern with both a history of these claims, and since there has been apparently no corrective action taken, these fake threats continue to snowball in their intensity and deceptive nature.
Be careful that Katie Reames (and others like her) does not forcibly instigate her will onto your church and law enforcement agency. As we’ll see, these fake threats continue to grow to egregious degrees and more law enforcement officers are called out over and over again.
The main takeaway from this question is to always take a few seconds, even take 3 minutes to verify before you amplify someone’s claim. Unfortunately, this applies to some -not all- law enforcement officers as well.
When confronted with a direct question like this, you’ll find the person’s response to usually be void of any real accountability.
On one hand they know that they’ve lied. On the other hand, they’ll think that they are totally self-righteous and dignified in their claims.
In either scenario when you ask a question like this, listen very intently, very purposefully, and very carefully. This is an open ended question type.
Once you’ve got a verified history that the person is making up fake threats, listen carefully to their answer to this question. If asked in an electronic medium like a chat, text or email, take note of their response and read it, then re-read it, read it again, and re-read it again. Asked audibly, you’ll want to write down the reply.
What you’ll discover from an open ended question like this is a glimpse into the ‘why’ behind the lie.
This would be a question for your head of church safety (or Shane Wickson at Pathway) & here’s what you’re wanting to find out:
Why has Pastor Rick Owen put such an incompetent officer in charge? Since we can establish a verifiable pattern of misconduct by combining both my transparency and (more importantly) public record requests, why would Shane Wickson not have cleared this bogus claim from Katie Reames prior to putting in a call to local Burleson Police department who were fully anticipating having to react with “appropriate measures”?
Why do that?
What you’ll discover is that sometimes officers like to project the image of safety to the congregation, and use that ‘work’ to promote their career in rank advancement. The tragic reality here is that Shane Wickson’s incompetence to tell Katie to STOP is only surpassed by his desire to fuel future claims which he will again, never validate as being a real threat or a made up hoax.
Again, what you want to do here is to pull public records before asking this question.
If you’re local here in Burleson, here’s the link:
https://www.burlesontx.com/FormCenter/Miscellaneous-Forms-5/Open-Records-Request-123
Katie Reames walks into church and makes up a threat that doesn’t exist. Before you inquire how many years this has been going on, make a simple public records request online. It doesn’t take but a few minutes to get all of Shane Wickson’s emails and/or text messages and/or any other information regarding how many times Burleson Police have been dispatched out to handle what amounts to “drama queens & hero complex”.
Grab a copy of all those, bounce it around to a few other officers, take ’em out to lunch or ask for a sit down meeting at the P.D.’s office. Find out how many times this has happened and you’ll quickly see the pattern.
The safety squad magically appears to put out the fire that never existed in the first place.
And, I want to use this so that others locally and around the world to learn, grow and gain wisdom from this. Please share.
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